Thursday, March 31, 2016

Trump Says Abortion Ban Should Carry Punishment for Women

Being a contrarian who also suffers fools gladly, I've had a lot of friendly conversations with right wingers. When abortion comes up, I've noticed that none of them have ever thought that the woman getting the abortion should suffer for it. This is inconsistent with the rhetoric of abortion being murder, but not with being against abortion generally.

But Trump isn't a conservative, he's a demagogue playacting as a conservative. So a lot of his ideas are more like what an idiot think a conservative would say. That's good enough for Freepers, who are tribal conservatives more than they have any actual philosophy.

So in response to Trump's latest bit of fast-talk foot-shooting, you have a good amount of Freepers who decide suddenly that women should be charged with a crime if they get an abortion. A position I'd venture is to the right of even Operation Rescue types.

Actually, Freepers were more split. A plurality married their TrumpLuv with simplistic ideological purity and agree with Trump (before he took it back). Others still love Trump, but realize this is crazy; so they blame the media. A few who have a history in the pro-life movement say Trump screwed up (I can't help but notice the absence of wagglebee and Morgana). And then the rest mostly lament how this is going to look bad politically.

Witness the carnage!

GOPJ doesn't even bother to investigate bfore drawing the conclusion:
This is most likely a liberal lie.
And like the last kid who still believes in Santa Clause, he's still arguing this didn't happen 100 posts later.

Arthur McGowan has this eye-opener:
All abortion methods except one should be outlawed—lethal injection in the arm of the mother. With a 24-hour period for the mother to think about it.
Hard to tell with Freepers, but it looks like he was joking, because Arthur McGowan next takes a much more standard line:
Nice try. You are repeating an old line of the abortionists; pretending that pro-lfers can’t be sincere if they don’t insist on Murder One.
Conservative Gato has figured out that anything that's politically damaging is actually just anti-PC!
Having Hillary or berinie running things will lead to more abortions. It is the sensibilities of society that has to be changed.

And that starts with good leadership willing to be politically incorrect and expose the ugly truth and have the courage to take on the evil.

Isn't this just what Donald Trump did? Think about it.
rossusa has a different rationalization for when Trump blunders into crazytown:
It’s just a negotiating ploy to get a better deal.
One gets the impression this is the first time Jim from C-Town has considered the issue:
She would certainly be charged with facilitation at least. The abortionist is the actual murderer she is simply complicit as an active participant.
winoneforthegipper has a new litmus test for who the True Freepers are:
There are only two issues that seperate the true conservative from the GOPe.

One is Abortion and the other is the Second.

Note now the freepers who goes after Trump. It is in those responses we will know who belongs and who does not.
dp0622 wants 2016 to be a referendum on abortion, and also boys v. girls:
of course if something is illegal there will be punishment. He could have said it’s a theoretical question but why should we keep playing games.


if the country WANTS abortions and f....t marriage and guys using girls’ bathrooms and Hillary wins, well then we know there are more of them than us and the country deserves what it gets.

women make up more than 50 percent of the voters now.

we have to get our lazy male friends out to vote.
Greetings_Puny_Humans has strawmanned abortion so hard, what choice does he have?
I don’t get it. So if a woman gets an illegal partial birth abortion, pulls the [baby] out 90 percent of the way and pays a doctor to suck the brains out, it’s outrageous to go with the logical position: she should be punished? And now PRO-LIFE groups are attacking Trump in mass over this? Just... bizarre.
Responsibility2nd isn't even for Trump, so his position means he's just a contrarian purist asshole:
The fact is that Pro-lifers have dealt with this matter for many years. Punishing the mother is the fringiest of fringey positions, if it even exists (before today.)

But HEY! Your guy has staked out some new ground for his circus.

I’m a Cruzer. But unlike you - I support Trump and his anti-abortion remarks here.

I’m sorry you think this pro-life position is the “ fringiest of fringey positions”.

But you stating this is surprising. It exposes your true feelings about abortion over all.

Who knew that don-o was pro abortion?
donna is almost the only woman to come out for jailing women who get abortions. This makes sense given her extreme anti-feminist history:
It’s logical. Aborting a baby is murder.

We have just tried to be kind to women because that’s the way we used to treat women before they were liberated.
Count Mercat in the women for men's rights camp as well:
But as far as the woman being punished by the law, as a woman, I’m okay with that. Women still are getting a pass in this culture - the whole women and children first meme.

The 15 year old girl who looked 20 who claimed that the old man touched her breast (actually I think she said chest) - so what!!!

If you’re street fighting then you had better “man up” and quit whining. Women cannot have it both ways, i.e., “I can kill my baby but you can’t punish me because I’m a woman.” IMHO if you kill your baby you lose all protection that this culture affords women.
ElisabethInCincy kind of joins the club, but doesn't seem to realize that this would put her in jail, Jesus' forgiveness or no. She seems more personally damaged than anything:
I HAVE YET TO HEAR ANY NEWS FROM THE PAST DECADES OF WOMEN BEING TAKEN AT GUNPOINT TO ABORTION CLINICS. THIS IS COMING FROM A WOMAN WHO shamefully had an abortion 20 + yrs ago.... ITS MURDER MURDER MURDER... ! Thankfully i find forgiveness through my Faith in Jesus christ.
bobo1 notes that this was a hypothetical question, and thus a trap:
It was a hypothetical not based on today’s reality. Abortion should be outlawed, but it is not at this moment. The question went beyond abortion and became “punishing women”.

Yes, it was a trap, and Trump responded in a way that will not help him.

I can see the pundits writing headlines tomorrow: Trump Wants to Punish Women.
austinaero also laments the political upshot:
Establishment GOP is going to have a field day with Trump’s remark and that will give Hillary even MORE fodder.

Dammit GOP!
SierraWasp agrees with the sentiment, but really hits the ashes and sackcloth hard:
As Dandy Don Merideath used to sing on the old Monday Nite Football show, "TURN OUT THE LIGHTS, THE PARTY'S OVER... THEY SAY THAT ALL GOOD THINGS MUST END!!!"

General Hitlery now has a little sling shot that she will topple the Donald with to end the "War On Women," and lead a charge like LBJ did against Barry Goldwater. Nothing's wrong with what he said, except that it totally makes him politically retarded in this day and age!!!

This is the statement "they" have been waiting for!!!
On the other hand, Trump's numbers with women couldn't get much lower, so...

A brief intermission for HiTech RedNeck acting like the asshole he is:
You are like the pigeon who knocks the chess pieces over on the board and claims a victory.

You are the one losing arguments here. I am not. My arguments are based on truth.
I'd post his position on his issue, but I can't tell what it is. It's his usual - lots of scripture and calls to love Jesus, not a lot of content.

fidelis explains the usual pro-life rationalization I hear:
I am pro-life, but I am of the personal opinion that most women these days are so brainwashed into believing that what they have conceived in their bodies is "just a clump of cells" that they (unlike the "doctors" performing the procedure) are not even cognizant that they are killing a baby. I would liken it to someone telling you to shoot at a barrel. They know there is a person inside, but you don't. The guilt is on them, not you.

Add to that the the emotional pressure and the coercive and dishonest tactics of Planned Parenthood and other abortion promoters, and I have serious doubts about the complete culpability of most women getting abortions. In a lot of ways, they are the second victim.
Antoninus seems to actually be involved in the pro-life movement, and is not a fan:
It's very clear that none of the people spouting off on this issue have any skin in the game, have not been involved with the pro-life movement aside from being a keyboard commando on FR, and have a very limited knowledge of how and why women get abortions.
Now Maelstorm is attacking the pro-life movement for being pro-choice. What a world.
The problem is many pro lifers don’t want to talk about life as if it REALLY means anything. They continue to allow the left to own this issue as if the woman is bearing the cost not the dead babies who have their lives stolen from them.
fooman tries to pollyanna his way through this 600 post crapshow.
This thread makes me support Trump or Cruz more.

Makes me have a larger perspective on practical ways to make the country better.


  1. "When I surveyed protesters at the 2016 March for Life in Washington, I asked what kind of penalties they believed would be appropriate for....women who sought them. []15 percent said the woman should be charged with murder."

  2. The counter-Freep response to Trump's comments seems to be based around denying that the women who get abortions have any agency. Of course, that's not going to stop them from making bootstraps speeches in other circumstances.

    It's probably for the best that the pro-life movement has generally adopted logically inconsistent stances instead of going maximum authoritarian.